From EXPAT to REPAT: The Shocking Truth Revealed with Pauline ✈️ 🔙

Episode Transcript:

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this episode I'm thrilled to introduce a very special guest who is not only a fellow expert but also the host of the
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podcast meet the expert where I had the honor to be interviewed just a few weeks ago born in France she grew up as a
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third culture kid experiencing life in Ireland South Africa and Japan after
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working in Ireland for some time she has now returned to her roots in France please join me in welcoming Pine
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this is expat experts the podcast that dives into the fascinating lives of those who've lived and worked across
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boarders exploring the challenges experiences and insights they've gained along the
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way before we dive in today's episode and as always I want to remind you that
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uh the best way to stay updated with the latest content on episodes is by hitting the Subscribe button in YouTube and also
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in your favorite audio platform for more insights and exclusive one-on-one call on how to create your own podcast
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YouTube channel or navigating your life as an exper please visit the website exper experts podcast.com or check the
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link in the description the expat Pauline from Meet the expat
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podcast again thanks for for accepting and and for being not only a a guest
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today but also the host a couple of weeks ago it was very very nice to be for once in the other side of the on the
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other side yeah it's a different different experience for sure yeah um so
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yeah a little bit like maybe we could start from the from the very beginning like you're originally from France but
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you moved pretty young or or when was the first move so I was two years old so
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indeed I'm was born in France my parents are French all my family is French and lives in France okay but my father was
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an became an expert he had moved previously abroad to Japan actually
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through this program that allowed him to work um in his company in Japan but also
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take classes I think he really loved it he loved the country and when my both my parents moved back
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to France I was born and a couple years in he got an opportunity to move abroad
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to move to Dublin so that was the first move two years old um I don't remember
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it obviously don't have many memories but I do know about the whole growing up
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there uh that is definitely some core and strong memories for me we stayed seven years so I was there from the age
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of 2 to nine so really all in my childhood was there and my parents made
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this choice to put me in an English school straight away Irish School actually um they
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looked at the French school there is a French French School in Dublin but they considered that it didn't have such a
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good reputation versus maybe the one in London or in other other countries other cities so they went with this Choice
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which is amazing for me today because I'm bilingual fluent English I don't
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have to think about it so great start in life at that on on that side and I
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always spoke French at home so I was really learning the two languages at the same time uh French and English English
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at school French at home um and yeah then we followed through the different
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countries when my parents were moving I followed as we as we went on until I was
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old enough to make my own decisions and leave home uh when I was 18 to pursue my
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own studies and my own Direction and my own travels for quick
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introduction very cool well that's that's very interesting like the fact that your parents I mean when you are
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two it's it's a very good age yet because you haven't gone to school no I suppose the point of time first yeah
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they could do the decision of like okay I go to I we go directly with the with the system of of of Ireland at that kind
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of time so for you very good because you catched two languages straightforward
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directly from from the very beginning how how was it though for you like
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growing up as a child I suppose for you it's not that much of a shock because
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but you will still feel different than the other kids or like in the sense like
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I think I would see a little bit when I would go to my friend's house at school
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I wouldn't no there was a difference because I had no compar no comparison obviously um food I'd say was a bit of a
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differen shador of for example the lunch boxes where
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I didn't have the same things as the kids as as the Irish kids in the in in
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The Lunchbox that was where there was a little bit of a difference and then it was more of the habits when you'd go on
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a play date to a friend and they' have like a Savory snack or maybe a chip
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sandwich that was sort the big trend of you crisps in the middle of two two
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slices of bread I was like what is this this is I don't have this at home this is not a thing for me um so that's where
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I think i' see the main differences of I'm the forign girl here yeah when yeah
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you'd compare lunch boxes or you'd compare snacks going to to a friend's house and and maybe even just like the
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dinner times and things like that if you go to friends places they have what they
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call tea time or or supper around 600 p.m. I'm French family like be more
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around around 7 or 8:00 p.m. um even as a as a younger child maybe 700 p.m. um
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so everything was a bit in a different time zone maybe and different culture in terms of yeah the culinary side mainly I
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want to say yeah I mean I suppose because your parents both are French you said both
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are French and so you were born and raised in a French environment at the end at home it was like still like
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cooking French dishes and exact not doing cheap sandwiches that sounds I
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don't know if tasty or disgusting at the same time I'm bit it's
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crispy that's for sure um and then you move with the so
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you spend your primary school let's say like these like N9 a little bit earlier
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than high school I would say no like high school it's around 12th depending on the systems uh but you moved before
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that and then you went to Japan that was the second to South Africa South Africa
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okay from there we moved to South Africa again my father um with his company um
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was sent uh got this opportunity abroad um
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and so they had to tell me about this move which was a bit of a serious
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conversation which I don't think I quite understood um the why the how um I
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remember myself being extremely sad of having to leave my whole life the
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friends and I mean this was the '90s so we didn't have internet so you'd have to
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do you know a call abroad which cost a fortune or um write letters or I think
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we started at facts at some point so that was the only way to communicate you know with my friends left after it was
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sending these written letters um that would take weeks to arrive or or yeah
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maybe sending a fact once in a while here or there so it was a big shift and
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it was the complete unknown for me I think when they said South Africa I would picture I would honestly picture a
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Savannah and lions ring around I had no clue what my life was going to look like but nothing close to what it actually
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was it's still a mind of a nine years old kid like it's normal now what what
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do you you are not an expert on geography at N9 years old we're not exposed at the time
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you know we don't have internet yet so we're not exposed like you can go do a quick research see the pictures and it
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you only see maybe the magazines which show who show you like the touristy things like The Safaris but not the real
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life there crazy I assume that was one of the difficult parts for you like as a
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kid and as a underage in general also I don't know when you moved to Japan back then how how many years did you live in
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in South Africa so in South Africa I stayed four four and a half years um so
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you were still pretty young when you moved to Japan also so PR young it happened the same emotionally like I'm
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having friends and then I need to leave them again because this is a quite typical expert thing also like I yes
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yeah of course I was sad but it's funny leaving South Africa I don't think it
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felt as hard okay um I think to put it back into
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context in South Africa I was I was at the French school this time so that was my first um shift but it was a French
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school with 90 different nationalities it was full of Experts of kids uh whose
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parents were diplomats or experts like my myself or even some who were sou half
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South African half French or Belgium or whatever so it's extremely
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International and constantly you had people leaving or coming
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in so you were exposed to people leaving regularly already and you knew you
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weren't here forever I think that was the first time where I knew we're not here for good versus Ireland for me like
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that's where I grew up so I never in my mind I thought we'd leave at some point
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South Africa it sort of I don't think it was even said or that we had the
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conversation previously but it sort of felt like we know this
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is just a stage of life don't know how long but it's just a stage of life and
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you're in this international school with kids who are used to moving every two years where soind you make friends very
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quickly first of all you're kid so it goes everything goes much faster than as an adults but I think they're all in
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this mindset of we know we're not here for long so just going to make friends
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now we're going to like go to each other's house is after two days in school and that's it and go on trips
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together with the parents and and everything so that was very intense in a
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good way um but then leaving didn't feel as hard I feel because so many people
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had left already before and it was just normal thing that would happen I
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see so what about the the the life in there like was it really different like
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what what shock you the most coming from Ireland to South Africa because they are very different
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cultures very very different um the whole way of life is is different I mean
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the weather obviously is great suddenly you know leaving from Marland suddenly everything's sunny and
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warm may maybe that's more a problem of Ireland than than is this um but also you're in this exper
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bubble of um everyone has a big big house and help uh so you have a mage you
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have a gardener everyone has a pool you know Jacuzzi room so you're going to
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suddenly this life that it was is completely different
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where yeah you have a lot more comfort and and advantages than you would have
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in in a European country uh classically so it's it's very surprising at
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first um and then it's also I mean
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there's there's security issues there this was a couple of years just after
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apartate so there was also this context that was there I was
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young so I didn't see everything and I think taking a step back later I realized a couple of like okay this
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wasn't normal um but so there is a security issue clearly you're not
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walking on alone on the street like that doesn't happen and it's not really a walking city either so everyone's in the
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car but the car is lock automatically um you know there are spikes on the walls
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surrounding each houses or or electric fences there are bars on on the windows
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and there are Panic buttons in every single room of the house so that's that's something that you have to live
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with then you choose to be very stressed or you just live with it and continue continue living but there are a couple
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of rules that you are told and you have to learn when when you arrive
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clearly um and I was at an age where I didn't need my Independence which was
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great I think had I been a teenager it would have been very very different and
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probably much hard where my my parents told me they when
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they'd go out for dinners with friends sometimes the other parents would leave at 4:00 A.M to go pick up their kids at
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at the exit of a club because they were there is no way they were going to spend five minutes alone at 4:00 a.m.
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outside so it's adapting on that way when you're younger and you don't need
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to hang outside alone orever it's fine but it also means that you're constantly at a friend's house here and there
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that's how you meet your friends which is nice it's it's funny because as I told you like just we were talking
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before the recording and I I interviewed like a couple of episodes ago a a woman
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who moved to South Africa also she was she did the opposite of you actually she started through Japan and then went to
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to to to South Africa so it's just like a so she saw the very very safe side before OPP exactly exactly she went the
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other way and she was explaining a little bit like the same with the case of her daughter being a teenager
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at that point of time and how difficult it was for for the daughter yeah yeah Big Challenge and struggle to deal
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with she was saying yeah she was telling the same like these courses on uh how to get
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security like that they they teach you when you arrive to your condo and they like you live in these houses that are
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like house yeah exactly so yeah it it it
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resonates I I heard this story before but I suppose I don't know how how much of it did you really realize being nine
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years old n i the people did try to break into the house quite early on so
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okay you know you you you realize quite soon um and yeah you realize quite soon
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and there are a couple of things where you know my parents took self-defense classes and they explained
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that indeed when why why the car locks straight away or
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that we have to be careful if we're stuck at a red light if we feel that we're followed we just have to go through and you hear these stories about
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carjackings and hijackings luckily nothing ever happened to us but some
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some some relatives did you know so some friends of theirs were were hijacked and they tell you how to react and so it's
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part of the thing when we arrive we they explain to me like in case this happen
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happens this is how you have to react because you have to be ready you never know so they they also teach kids how to
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react in this of course I mean assume well yeah I mean if someone hijacks the car and the kid is at the back you know
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you don't want something to happen to them either so well that's a I don't
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know it's a whole world I I I mean I I move countries but I've never been into a place that is dangerous in that sense
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so it's like so yeah you but but people
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are nice and you can still live you just have to be conscious I mean you can choose to be completely paranoid and
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scared and not leave your house or you can still live and and do things I think that's what my parents tried to do and I
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never never felt unsafe no part of the package was we we get a
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dog and you get a guard dog on that was the for you I see yeah the
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choice was between maybe a rod Vier and a German Shepherd you know we got the German
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Shepherd nice um did you know like did your parents
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know that it was only for four years so it was a end date it was something that they already knew that it was going to
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end at some point I I I think the new is around three years then we never have
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the exact end date I mean Ireland was supposed to be three to four years it last as seven um as so I've always heard
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my mom say we know when we leave we never know when we're coming back um
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because dates change deadlines change if there's a new project if there's no new
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opportunity if there's a new opportunity that turns up you never know what can
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happen when then you moved to Japan uh
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with um so no actually we moved back to France in between um
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stayed again 4 and a half years or so so this was actually the hardest move for
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me starting to be in the teen years um we moved halfway through the school year
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so right in the middle um and to the small town on gulm
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close to Bordeaux but it's a small town where I mean the kids in my class probably had known each other for 10
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years um you see what I mean so yeah you're arriving in the middle of
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the school year you're changing hemisphere so I I left summer to arrive in the dead winter so it's all tan and
19:07
everything no one understood was possible um and coming from an an
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extremely International School where everyone spoke you know French English whatever everyone was mixing languages
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in the same conversation to yes a French school more traditional with uh the times also
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although outside Africa was a French school they sort of adapted to the weather so you'd start early but you'd finish school very early you'd have a
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very small lunch break and then how week I think I probably had activities um
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every day of the week or something after school in in friends I mean you start at
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8 and you finish at half five you're exhausted um you only have your
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Wednesday afternoon off and so that's when um kids do activities so it's different Rhythm
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getting to trying to fit into this new atmosphere where you don't have the same
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mindset you don't know the same Trends and I think it's also an age
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where you're trying to discover yourself know exactly who you are what you like
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um we're a little bit mean between each other at that age um it's a hard it's
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definitely a hard age where any little thing where you Stand Out
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is I'm not going to say bully because it was not bullying but it's it's you're
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being pointed out because you don't understand this or you don't know this or you don't have that Trend or or
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whatever and so small things like the fashion the music things like that I was
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completely outside of the loop I didn't know it's very very different and so
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adjusting that took a lot of adjusting I say good year year and a half um before
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I was really able to gain trust feel well feel good also myself and actually
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understand who my friends were and who who to hang out with yeah because the
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groups are the friend groups are already made also when you RVE halfway through the year absolutely and not only that if
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you go to a small town from a big city then at the end you're entering like groups that are for a long time very
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bubble no like they are there group and you're trying to enter into that thingy without who are you and what are you
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doing here why did you live in South Africa I don't know I suppose these questions were like what yeah but the
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that was still okay you know why did you live in South Africa but it's funny because there was a sort of and I can't
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blame them for it but there was a sort of ignorance sometimes and I was like well why are you asking that question of
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you know what country inide Africa on South Africa it is a country and are you
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not too tired about the time zone and it was in listen from them but I didn't understand why these questions were
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coming because it was so obvious um for me of well it's actually the same time
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zone it's like one hour difference and that's it I I get it that it was new for
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them also makes sense so for that was the case the first repatriation we will talk a little bit more about that was
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the first repatriation probably hardest we will talk on the second part
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about it a little bit more and the whole process of coming back home I think it's it's a very regular topic on Experts
22:33
that I talk that they went back home I don't know in your case you were very
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very young when you left France were you even like feeling that you were going back home or or you were considering
22:44
Ireland more like the place to we I don't know like I I don't know if I ever
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like said oh this is going back home when going back to France maybe a little
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bit although I had never lived there um the thing is I knew the town because all
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my mother's family comes from there and lives there so there was there was
23:07
family which I think made it easier at least on weekends I was surrounded by uh
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by family even though they probably did not had no understanding of what I was going through because they never left
23:19
left the city um but that probably made it feel a
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little bit more like home and there was not I don't think we made the move with
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this thing of it's just a passing through like there was for South Africa
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where we knew like it's not going to last forever I I can't remember but I
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don't think there was that thing of this is just temporary so it probably did
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feel a little bit like well this is going to be the new home I don't know if I could say I'm going back but I was I'm
23:55
moving to France at least and this is going to be home is there so who knows yeah it was more like okay
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for your parents also I suppose no going like okay now we've lived multiple years outside and now it's going back through
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family and this kind of stuff well it was actually it it wasn't planned uh because so it was again for my father's
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uh work my mom had stopped uh working um with the different Ms um
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and his family doesn't come from there his family is from Southeast um and it's
24:30
just that the the company he was in has a branch in that specific
24:37
City so it wasn't my mom saying oh I want to be close to the family it was just convenient and a bit of a surprise
24:43
um especially to be in such a small city after having that only Capitals in
24:48
bigger bigger can imagine like doing very very big cities and suddenly being in a small town it's always a shock
24:55
sometimes it's a good thing it's also finding a calmer like or like real life when does Japan comes
25:02
in this it come the same way like your dad has an offer and then you live to Japan exactly repated pattern yeah rep
25:11
repeated pattern definitely it's oh here we go again um the difference this time
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is I was a little bit older I was 16 or 17 when it came up um and so I was
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towards the end of high school and so my parents actually gave me the choice of
25:30
what do you want to do do you want to come with us or do you want to stay and finish high school because there was
25:36
only one year left and so is my graduation year with baloria which is the French uh final final
25:43
exam um there were Arrangements that were possible with friends uh for me to
25:49
to to stay if um it was something I wanted I decided to go this once in a
25:56
lifetime opportunity and I T to myself so my father left earlier and he left
26:02
throughout my throughout the school year and I stayed in Anam another six months with my mom so finished the school year
26:09
this time because it was a bit more of a strategic year with exams uh still instead we made um we made the move and
26:18
this time we made the move where I knew I was only going for one
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year okay that was the first sort of shift of changing it's like in my mind
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is I'm just doing my baloria my last year and then I'm going back to France
26:34
for my studies because I'm in a French school and so I went to the French School in Japan French High School very
26:42
good high school very small um especially for the last final years
26:48
where I think a lot of the students have
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maybe left or were like myself are not necessarily
27:00
following their parents for that last two years so we were only eight students per class on that final year to give you
27:08
the scope of of how small um in the final years um it was so it's quite
27:13
intense different rhythm of high school again versus what I was dealing with in France with exams every Saturday morning
27:20
so short weekends a lot of work so it was a lot of catching up for me um and
27:27
suddenly having you know to commute and doing transport to to get to the school
27:32
because the size of the city is so much different and you know in Ulm small town
27:38
I would either take the bus it was maybe like 25 minutes or my mom would drive me to school and that was like 15 20
27:44
minutes max now suddenly you know you're commuting with the Metros which works
27:49
amazing but it's more of a yeah 35 to 45 minute ride a little bit
27:55
different um there's a new Rhythm there's a lot of catching up in terms of level
28:01
to get there um and it was the students
28:06
there were either French and they had been there for again a couple of years
28:12
already no one was arriving just for the final year um was probably the only one
28:18
and or they were half French half Japanese or half French half Korean generally so again it was a little bit
28:24
of fitting in because they had known each other from maybe maybe two to five
28:30
years depending um and also I was only there I mean
28:37
school year is probably eight to nine months only so was very short I think and we had fun we made a space but I I
28:45
blended in but we we didn't keep really contact versus other other places where
28:50
maybe we kept contact a little bit longer after which city in Japan were you Tokyo
28:56
Tokyo nice yeah I suppose it was also a cultural shock I I assume like even if you were in a
29:02
French school the French system works like that so you can go outside and if you're in a French school you don't need
29:08
to repeat courses or you need to convalidate or how does it work exam wise I mean if it's a French school it's
29:13
the same French system so you know you have the same grades like you're graded
29:21
on the same same things and same same level it's a French Academy so you accumulated the notes or the bad
29:28
from South Africa to to Japan at the end no like you've been in a French in yeah
29:34
I've been in a French system for most of in three different countries that's also
29:40
very it's nice I've seen different ways of you know teachings they I mean they
29:46
have the same structure obviously in the same courses but there's a little bit of localization for some for for some
29:54
options you know music in South Africa was way more fun I I think I've never met another music teacher that was as
30:01
good as as fun you know he'd teach us JBE or he'd make us build our own flute and we work on um South
30:10
African um rhythms and and and songs and national anthems and things like that
30:17
national anthem is not in English you know in South Africa it's um it's I
30:23
can't remember the language actually of it but they have 11 national languages okay
30:29
um language wise you learn any of the languages of uh of well sou Africa was English um M I
30:37
didn't learn Africans but they didn't really teach it in school either um in Japan I wanted to take Japanese third
30:46
language but that program started two years before my arrival like you'd start two levels before so I couldn't take it
30:52
because I wouldn't have the um the level and I think I had other things to up on
30:58
the more more priori yeah I mean if it's only eight
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months I don't know if you learn and you have your final exam which
31:09
is the big thing can imagine you need to focus a little bit on two priorities I
31:14
suppose so no no no extra languages than um English what about the culture itself
31:22
like did you did you immerse I mean of course you were in school with French people but we would you say that you
31:28
really lived the Japanese culture at some point I I definitely en enjoyed the city
31:37
um I wouldn't say I really immersed myself um because being in a French
31:42
family at home and a French school I wasn't exposed that much plus I
31:49
didn't speak the language um which is a big thing in Japan um I think I I did
31:55
get a little bit of some of the codes of you know there's a lot of hierarchy is
32:01
very valued respect um there are a lot of small things um in society that you
32:07
have to know like blowing blowing your nose is considered un poite it rather you sniff it all up um very loudly then
32:15
you blow your nose and some some things like that okay well that's a it's a
32:22
weird example but yeah I suppose this is the small things that you don't even
32:28
consider when you move to a place and then suddenly you are in a in a completely different way of doing things
32:35
no like yeah I I think working in Japan is probably very very different and much more structured and I think my father
32:42
had a bit more experience on that side um and saw but saw it um but small
32:49
things like he told me about going to wedding in Japan where there's so many codes of the colors you can wear not
32:57
wear even when you give a gift you usually give a gift of you give cash it has to be in an envelope you
33:04
choose the color of the envelope the bank noes have to be new W not going to
33:10
pull out a random bank note that's been folded five times um there's an order
33:16
well not really an order but you have to put them in a certain way um facing this
33:21
way in inside the envelope um FL the envelope this way hand it over in a
33:27
certain way so that you're not going against a certain
33:33
traditional nice I mean it's one of the cultures with more Traditions ancient
33:38
traditions and preservation and they really live out of it like everyone has Traditions but it's true that the
33:44
Japanese culture is known to have a lot of them so you finished them the studies
33:51
there you did your exams to enter University and then you went back to study in France you exactly I moved back
33:59
to France on my own my mom helped me for the move um and my parents stayed in
34:05
Japan another two to three years okay I think so yeah when I left house I I left
34:13
for for real yeah um I I was 18 and yes I moved
34:20
to France uh to Paris so first time living in Paris living alone um to start Prep School prep
34:27
school School in France is two years of intense it's like an intense High School
34:32
on a couple of subjects and it allows you to prepare
34:39
for exams um to um where there's only a number of spots available to get into
34:44
the schools like Business Schools or engineering school so I followed the path for for business
34:51
school so it was an exciting time Ney when you know you're 18 to 20 in Paris
34:58
living the life um but it was an intense two years
35:03
um and I think it was harder than I thought looking back after just because
35:10
yes it was one very very intense in terms of school I mean it's known to be
35:16
harsh and breaks a lot of people and having that distance with my parents I
35:22
think I hadn't quite realized how difficult of s go from living with them
35:28
to you see them once a year
35:34
which is is very different and there's such a time zone difference that we had
35:40
to plan our calls like you're not calling at any time of the day plus you know it was still Skype with
35:47
credits that WhatsApp yet yeah the lovely Skype I forgot about Skype yeah
35:54
yeah works like a charm uh yes definitely very best video quality ever
36:02
uh um so you know I was planning that Weekly call at a specific time um
36:08
evening for them morning for me and trying to catch up and pack up your whole week in in this small call
36:16
everything emotionally was quite um was quite hard and intense plus I didn't have family in Paris I did have family
36:23
still in so I would go once in a while but I wouldn't go that often either um I
36:29
mean train tickets in France are not that cheap um and it was also Logistics
36:36
and I had to study a lot on weekends also and so I'd study I'd go out a
36:42
little bit also take the pressure off um but luckily I had a lot of friends from both angulam um the dis in France where
36:50
I had lived but also from Tokyo a lot of the students in Tokyo with me also like
36:55
moved to Paris to to study after so there was that friendship
37:01
support system um between well your a student so you meet a lot of people in
37:07
in your school in your University you hang out with and I had also the people from high school the previous high
37:13
schools I used to hang out with nice I mean it's also cool that you have someone who is passing through the same
37:18
thing as you know because if the people who were coming from Japan probably their parents also stayed in Japan they
37:23
were like a little bit of like being in the same situation always unite people know a little bit more like when does
37:31
the then Ireland come in this like you study the whole un you do business school you do University and then when
37:37
do you move to Ireland yeah so I moved much later on so
37:44
I've yeah I moved to P for my studies I did my business school a little bit of
37:49
arasmus internship abroad and then I moved to back to Paris um for my final
37:57
in ship I started working there a couple of years I was in sales and I was trying to change jobs
38:04
but I was looking in Paris I just fed up I needed a change and nothing was
38:10
picking up I mean all the HRS were calling me to do exactly the same thing that I was doing and no I wanted to move
38:18
more into the tech space into marketing um and I met this girl who was living in
38:24
Dublin and working at IBM so just picked up and saying oh IBM has jobs haven't
38:30
all of that company I'll take a look and one of the jobs was I looked at the
38:36
Paris section and one of the jobs when I opened said well this is actually based in Dublin like you know what I'll apply
38:43
see what happens and it's the only one that went through so suddenly I'm well I'm gonna
38:51
move back um 20 years later and I had
38:56
Parisian friends who had actually moved maybe a year or two previously in um in
39:03
Dublin to work in Tech because it's the biggest in Europe nice so suddenly you are going
39:11
back from going back this is this is really with like going back home from home like it's this whole situation of
39:16
like you repatriated from Japan to France to repatriate yourself to what
39:22
you also consider at some point like are you planning to go to South Africa anytime like just like circling back
39:29
again and again so it it was pretty unplanned and
39:35
I think what got me to apply was saying well you know what I know Dublin it's not far and I have friends there so why
39:42
not um but I so you say it's like going back home I never in my mind thought
39:50
it's home for me I had settled in Paris I had bought my flat I had a little bit of an
39:57
of sort of want to go back abroad and you know go alone not through University
40:03
not through my parents but also prove to myself I can do it I can do it on myself
40:09
um on my own so it it came up in a bit out of the blue um and I caught the
40:17
opportunity but I left saying it's going to be two years I didn't see
40:24
myself settling I think I also laugh I was in a relationship and we did long distance for a little while until it
40:31
just fizzled out because it I had no return exact return date
40:36
MH um but yeah it was more of this is going to be a good you know career boost
40:43
a Trum and a fun experience and I I'll I'll go abroad for for a little bit and
40:50
then come back yeah I I know that I did that actually I went to Germany with a
40:56
job under the under the arm let's say like this it makes things a little bit easier also because you know that you're
41:01
having a job so that's one of the biggest fears when you move abroad without having a job yeah I yeah for the
41:08
job um did you keep contact with anyone from uh from Ireland from when you were
41:14
a kid in Ireland so the first few years when I left Ireland um I stayed in contact with
41:22
uh with a good friend the first few years um she'd come over to France when I was on holidays there go back in the
41:29
summer and we got back in touch when I moved back um but it didn't really pick
41:37
up that much I think we probably met two three times and then just
41:42
didn't yeah I think it had been too long and we sort of went separate ways and
41:47
that's okay um so not not no not really well it's a long shot like if you
41:55
maintain a relation over 20 years and you're still like each other that's okay
42:00
with the distance and everything that's that would be a coincidence more than a more than thing like um so how many
42:08
years did you stay at the end in in Ireland then like um it was yeah four to
42:14
five five years okay yeah almost five years nice and then you went back to
42:20
France again I went back to France indeed and that was my plan and it
42:26
happened it happened very abruptly and and surprisingly with
42:32
Co of course yes the big star um yeah the big star but I I sort of see it as a
42:39
silver lining um so I I loved my experience there it
42:46
Dublin is full of expats it's an international bubble Now versus 20 years
42:51
ago it's doesn't compare because there's all the Google LinkedIn Twitter
42:56
everything every American Tech Corp has their European headquarters there and
43:03
they hire Italians for the Italian market French for the French Market German
43:08
whatever so it's extremely European in every single tech company um everyone's
43:16
between you know 25 to 35 it's very young Vibe you start in a company it's
43:22
sort of you know that onboarding promo so I again I think we are 20 starting to say same the same day you know and so
43:29
and everyone's come from abroad so everyone's looking for an apartment at the same time everyone's trying to
43:35
discover the country the city so there's this whole phase of
43:40
coming in where you're with friends and it feels like PID arasmus really yeah because everyone's
43:47
going through the same thing everyone wants to go out everyone wants to try a new thing everyone wants to go visit go
43:53
on the weekend so very quickly you're making connection with your with your colleagues at least
44:00
at IBM but I think in different companies it's more or less the same maybe not as big promotions but still
44:06
there there is this vibe that you you find in all the tech all the tech companies there which is it's great um
44:14
so if you want to just hang out with French you can or you can hang out with
44:20
other other countries and everyone ends up you know knowing each other from the different communities in different
44:26
companies every refers each other to the different companies to get a job after
44:31
um the only thing is douin is extremely expensive as a city it's crazy housing
44:38
crisis wild it's still gotten worse um over the years so you're in a house
44:47
share constantly unless you you're able to buy at some point and the housing market is
44:52
complicated and so yeah after a couple of years I you know I used to earn my own flat I own my flat in Paris okay
45:00
after four years of house sharing I was starting to say this cannot be my life and also in terms of culture I was sort
45:08
of feeling I was lacking a little bit in Ireland it's all fun and all but at some point I want to do other things than
45:15
just going to a pub um so I couldn't really see myself um staying uh some
45:22
people were starting to leave and in my mind also it was after a good two years
45:28
2 and a half years I think in my mind it was constantly I'm going to leave in 6 months I'm going to leave in six months
45:34
I'm going to find a job and wasn't finding jobs to move back so that was sort of blocking me and I loved my job
45:41
there really loved the company and and what I was uh what I was
45:47
doing um Co started so we started being remote work I asked my manager if I
45:54
could go back to France just for until things died down a little bit he's like yeah fine so I left you know with my
46:00
hand luggage uh laptop and like bye I'll see you in 2 months yes
46:06
true two weeks later I was laid off so no wow okay um there was extreme layoffs
46:15
in um within my company I was part of them I mean I was working in events so obviously events were cut off that was
46:24
among the first budgets and that's when I decided Well you know what I wanted to
46:29
move back that's it but so it it was very traumatic in the sense
46:34
that in 24 hours I had suddenly stopped
46:40
my expat life you know I was I was already in France and I knew I wasn't
46:46
going back um I could say goodbye to my colleagues I can say goodbye to my
46:51
friends because we were all in lockdown this is like March 30th you know so it's early early in the
46:57
in the in the C I think in France we were locked down for two weeks only at that
47:04
time um and so I started reorganizing well organizing my move but
47:12
from a distance I couldn't fly back because I think there was a quarantine
47:18
or something that was imposed of like two weeks if you flew back in it was a bit ridiculous to fly back
47:26
for two weeks when you only needed maybe two days for for a move and things so my
47:34
good friends that were there I sent them to my house share I sent over
47:41
suitcases and by post or send my bag or something empty suitcases and they packed all my things
47:48
through a WhatsApp video my four years of life they were
47:53
going through all my draw drawers and did all my boxes for me and I was well
47:59
throw that away keep that box this take that where you if you want and plan to
48:06
send my bag they labeled everything and sent over my things to to to to leave my
48:13
leave my apartment so yeah hard traumatic definitely of waking up in
48:19
lockdown of you know there's no exper life there's no job like what am I going
48:24
to do and I'm moving back and I know reverse culture shock is going to hit me hard at some point um so it was a bit of
48:33
a if you want to talk about repatriation it was a little bit of a specific um repatriation because it came
48:42
very abruptly and also it was at the same time in a good way I was back in
48:47
France and with family when all of this happened so I was in good you know surrounding um with with a support
48:54
system at least and in more of a comfortable house I was not cooped up in a tiny perisian flat um which was better
49:04
but so a little bit of you know thinking what am I going to do with my life to
49:10
find a job what am I going to do and this is how the podcast uh popped up of I want to do
49:16
something a CO baby again um and so how do I stay
49:22
connected to the international life that I've just left um and that I mean I wanted to go back
49:31
but not under these conditions so wanted to plan it a bit more and so very
49:36
quickly it was well interviewing experts that that came up and it was a little
49:41
bit of a therapy for me let's be very honest it was more of yeah makes sense
49:48
seeing that other people you know were had lived the same challenges um went
49:54
through the same highs lows and a little bit of the being connected to that
49:59
mindset and the same people yeah cool so
50:04
maybe we're already in the topic so maybe we just jump directly into the second part and uh we talk a little bit
50:11
more deeper about repatriation and and what meant for you and maybe also like a
50:16
little bit of your experience but also how how to deal with it yeah hey there
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today with that said let's go back to the episode the expert how to deal with
51:06
repatriation repatriated multiple times so there is no better person to to talk
51:11
with I would say know about it but um what what what does mean repatriation
51:17
for you like it's always been like going back to France or it's also like what you were saying the feeling of like
51:22
reverse cter shock for example it's one it's a very typical thing to feel no like yeah I well I mean repatriation for
51:30
me is going like if I take a strict definition I'd see it as going back home
51:35
and for me that means going back to to France um more Paris because that's
51:41
where I've as an adult that's where I've lived the most and really made um made a
51:47
home and where I see myself living I think reverse culture shock
51:52
always comes in um I I think raduation is a thing
51:58
where I've gone through a couple so I know what to
52:04
expect um I think there's different stages to it and I I'll go through them
52:11
but I very naively the last time I thought that as I knew what to expect it
52:16
wouldn't happen that was very naive I thought I was ready because I knew but
52:22
no it still hits you at some point and you never know when but I think it always comes and it's hard feelings to
52:30
ex to explain but there's this piece of whenever you move to a place you you
52:36
become part of that place or part of it comes into you and you always leave with
52:41
it I me it might be just some habits the people the you know the culture the vibe there
52:49
there's something there that you you adjust to and you make it your home in a
52:55
way and so you're leaving that so you're leaving a home there's this Detachment
53:01
and that it's going to be an empty spot when you when you go back when you
53:08
repatriate you you can't just leave everything and it's same thing when you leave your home to go somewhere you feel
53:14
nostalgic you've left something you're missing out and you have exactly that on the other way even though I wanted to go
53:20
back I mean there's things I love there uh there was people there was going to the beach weather wasn't great but you
53:27
know you live by the Sea um there was this atmosphere of work where it was
53:32
very International and coming back I knew well oh it's going be France Paris is not necessarily known for its
53:39
International Vibe at work at least or diversity things have changed very much
53:45
surprised and surprised in a good way um about Paris in the past 10 years before
53:51
I left and when I when I came back so that's one aspect of you feel like like
53:56
you're missing out on what's Happening back in in your old home and then you're
54:02
you come back thinking oh everyone's going to be so happy for me to see me and we're going to pick things up and
54:10
yeah people are happy to see you but there's still living your their life you know you think you're sort of going to
54:15
be the star for a little bit of time of yay I'm back welcome back there's going to be a party waiting
54:21
no no no unless you go pick your phone call and arrange for
54:28
everything nothing's going to it's not going to happen I think that's hard it's hard on the ego of you know you're happy
54:37
to see them you think oh I've missed them and I'm G to go back to we're going
54:43
to have our rituals of you know having coffee I don't know going out for dinner whatever but you haven't been there for
54:49
X many of years so they've just made their new rituals or different ones and
54:55
they've made them without you and so you have to sort of make a statement to get back in or and also find a sync where
55:02
both of you have evolved maybe expecting different things have lived different things where you
55:08
weren't there for each other necessarily um and it's how do you make
55:16
things work again and adjust and I think
55:21
this can be different at different stages of life I mean when I move back to Paris after Tokyo I was a student I
55:29
think was very different you make friends very very quickly and everyone's a little bit of in that mood of going
55:36
out um coming back in my 30s you know yeah I came back everyone was getting
55:43
married or having children so suddenly you're coming back you the girl that was
55:49
living her you know pay the rasas you're in a completely different way of
55:55
life um um so that different stages of life you're going to have different
56:00
reverse culture shock I think definitely of course but there's always going to be that thing of yeah finding the new
56:07
balance and also finding that mindset you are people who were living the same
56:13
things as you who were going through the same challenges and when you come back they
56:18
they haven't gone through the same things and for them it's a little bit of well you're back you wanted to be back
56:24
but they don't understand that you've left something and that you might be missing also something else you said
56:30
also something very interesting and it's that when you are outside for some years
56:35
you live some years things change and you are you a lot of people expect to
56:41
everything be how they left it no and it's not it's never like this because
56:47
not even like not even the city you said about Paris for example it changed so uh
56:52
but also the people have it happened to you that someone who was like close to you or a friend of you and it passes the
57:00
years and when you come back you are like okay we don't have anything in common again now anymore and then you
57:06
lose a friendship because of this for example um I don't know if I have a real
57:11
I think probably I mean I think it's just that the Friendship
57:16
changes well yeah I I wouldn't say I lost a friend but it's just I think we don't
57:23
have necessarily the same connection and we're not expecting the same the same
57:29
things and you have to be willing to accept that you might still be there for each other but maybe not for the same
57:35
things and maybe with a different degree and you won't yeah you won't be there
57:42
for the same things as it was as previously yeah makes sense it's it's a
57:49
lot also of meeting new people involved in it or like have you passed through a
57:55
way of like okay saying okay relations are not as it was anymore I need to get
58:00
new people around yeah build a new relation build a new Circle yes completely especially coming back this
58:06
time um and I think that was a big Focus for me um specifically when you're an
58:12
adults and you're in the workplace where you're at an age where it's harder to make friends you don't meet as many
58:18
people as you would when you're a student or when you're a kid and it takes longer to build relationships
58:25
because people are bus busy you know they they're working they maybe have a
58:30
family and so it's how do you make new friends and go find those
58:36
people that you want to be connected with that are maybe more International or who have lived abroad and will be in
58:42
the same same type of mindset and so I think I was a bit more prepared and
58:48
worked a lot more on this not immediately because obviously there was covid and it took me for me a year of
58:56
actually finding a job in really making the move um back to Paris and so then you start building so everything was a
59:03
bit more spread out because the context was so peculiar um but things I have
59:11
done and that I still work on like it's a constant thing I think for me
59:16
now and for example I joined a company that's French but very International so
59:24
there were there were foreigners experts from Sweden America um in in my company
59:30
that was one thing at some point I spend a couple of months in the co- living um
59:36
and that was a good way to meet people that were working that were in same age racket a lot of them were
59:43
Internationals and I maybe didn't make that many connections but I made one or two that were really meaningful and that
59:50
we really built on that relationship and became friends and went out to all you know explor the whole city in terms of
59:57
concerts or restaurants and well that's what comes the at the 30s that's what
1:00:03
comes yeah it's not about the quantity it's about the quality defitely not
1:00:08
exactly um and I knew it was a person who wasn't you know just passing through because that was the day in the co-
1:00:14
living you have a lot of people who come say I'm here for two months you know what I'm not gonna bother I'm not it's
1:00:20
sad to say but you know when you're in a city and you know you want to live there and I had interviewed a woman asked
1:00:25
about woman who told me I made the mistake the first few years of making friends with people who are only staying
1:00:30
one year you built so much and then suddenly they they're gone the first question is how long are
1:00:36
you staying if you're not staying three years I don't want to hear about it the typical expert dilemma of like everyone
1:00:44
living you and you okay every two years doing New Circle friends to start again
1:00:50
yes exactly so yeah but so finding the right people finding people who are
1:00:57
staying and there's I've recently discovered um a nap gam which is it's sort of a
1:01:05
Meetup but it's it's more of a high level Meetup with activities like going
1:01:10
to the Opera going to this cool restaurant or new bar and things like that where anyone can host or you pay to
1:01:16
be able to attend other things and it's actually full of Internationals and was built by two former expats you say well
1:01:25
it's hard to meet people and explore the city and so this I feel is a good way to
1:01:31
also meet new meet new people Internationals and discover the city um
1:01:37
I wouldn't say that I've really like made friends yet through it haven't been very active on it but it's just finding
1:01:44
those little little things that are not necessarily like a super big Focus but
1:01:51
once in a while of saying well yeah I want to go out I want to meet people um
1:01:58
maybe once a month or once every two months it just brings up
1:02:03
a br something fresh and something new yeah with an activity behind because if
1:02:08
it's meetups for just drinking it we all know how we dance so yeah it's not the
1:02:15
best places actually it's not meaningful connections are not really happening so it's a French app or it's a do you know
1:02:22
if it works in other places or um so they've opened up London and New York okay maybe Berlin
1:02:29
I'm not sure how how is it called gam c a r o m okay check it out Le all the
1:02:39
listeners can can check it out if you are one of the cities that yeah it's active um yeah no it's it's a cool way
1:02:47
to discover the the secrets of the city also and even myself living in Paris for
1:02:52
quite a few years you know there's things you discover of like new restaurants or even places or big events
1:03:00
that happen they I think they're they probably have subscriptions to the Opera
1:03:05
or something and so they they they give access to it um it's usually quite
1:03:11
expensive um activities that's the only only thing I would say but then anyone
1:03:17
can create their own activity so you can you can choose and adjust and
1:03:23
also level it out to check it out um you also said something that is also
1:03:29
interesting and it's that people changes obviously but cities also and environments also and you said that you
1:03:37
found Paris a completely different Paris that the one that you left uh how what
1:03:43
what would you say that it's the biggest changes that you've seen in in in these late years of Paris like now um so I
1:03:50
left in 2015 and I came back in 2021
1:03:55
things that I've seen changes I feel it's more International I mean walking
1:04:01
around I hear a lot more foreign languages and they're not only tourists they're definitely people who actually
1:04:08
live in the city or you're passing by for a few months so that has changed um
1:04:14
talking with expats also that it's much easier to find a job I mean companies
1:04:21
are hiring more Internationals even if they don't speak French which which was definitely not the casee when I left
1:04:28
were very very rare so there's been a shift on that side and then more in
1:04:36
terms of how the city is it's a lot more
1:04:41
there's a lot more cycling Lanes there used to be already but it's really really um multiplied and it's it's so
1:04:50
nice that now you can cycle throughout the whole city cross from one end to the other and like 35 to 40 minutes outside
1:04:57
all the time um barely come in collision with a barely
1:05:02
be on the same street as a as a car and things like that so no it it it's very
1:05:07
enjoyable I mean it's it's it's a beautiful city so when you're you get to be outside and see all the monuments is
1:05:14
is quite nice we're well we're recording right now it's still the olymp in Paris
1:05:21
just an incredible vibe to the city right I was going I was going to ask I will destroy the whole Evergreen of of
1:05:27
this episode it doesn't really matter but how is the Olympics going like it's amazing I mean there there's a full
1:05:35
buzzing atmosphere where there's lots of tourists um not that many cars which
1:05:42
fantastic I mean it is August um and everyone's just happy the whole city
1:05:48
just feels like a party with all the fan zones and things where you can go out and it's just the fact that they
1:05:56
Paris is like an Open Sky open roof Stadium right now because most of the
1:06:04
locations are in The Monuments or within the city directly I mean I've been to
1:06:11
the beach valy which happens just right next to the Eiffel Tower where they created a stadium Outdoors facing the
1:06:18
Eiffel Tower I just last night I went to Grand where they were doing ta
1:06:24
quendo and um and you come out of there in the evening it's all lit up and it's
1:06:29
in this area where there's so many monuments really so you come out of the company obviously you see the company
1:06:34
which is magnificent with its um glass roof it's all lit up you turn around you
1:06:40
cross um the Alexander 3 Bridge it's the golden bridge where they um did the
1:06:47
triathlon starts and it's nine times and you actually see the flame from it
1:06:52
that's in the hot air balloon um you know floating above the the River
1:06:58
from there all lit up by night you turn around there's the Eiffel Tower behind you Val lead is lit up on the other side
1:07:06
it's even living here I feel like I'm rediscovering the city and it's all its
1:07:11
Monument because everything is just completely showcased um and used during
1:07:18
the the events so it must be incredible it's quite magical can you
1:07:24
imagine so we'll see in 10 days it's still feels so magic Notting
1:07:33
of the things like I don't know I grew up in a city that had Olympic Games in the 92 and
1:07:41
some of the infrastructures that were created by the Olympics are quite abandoned and here in Ence even even
1:07:46
worse like the Olympics well Ence yes was a big one well the thing is we didn't create that much here because in
1:07:54
G so structure is going to be removed it was only adding seats inside I felt
1:07:59
Tower same um you know it was just they added seats um but it's something they'll take down at Concord same
1:08:07
thing um they did stuff at anid so same there you know there was one pool
1:08:14
that was built yeah but it's in these ones I think it was more like a mountain Mount thingy which is good because you
1:08:21
don't affect that much the city and the whole part of the monument the it's the really cool part it's not that you're
1:08:27
are building a whole new complex for making things it's that you're using your already existing monuments and
1:08:34
doing things in front of them I think the concept here it is very very good like in that sense they nail it and so
1:08:41
so they got funds also to restore part of The Monuments for this um which is
1:08:47
good also longterm so yeah talking about Paris are
1:08:53
you planning it's your last move your I mean Never Say Never I suppose but never say
1:08:59
never no Never Say Never but right now I'm I'm happy I mean I you know I really
1:09:07
changed flat um you know refurbished I I feel good in it feel good in the in the
1:09:12
neighborhood I I like my life here um also what I didn't say is I work for
1:09:20
a fully remote company okay um we used to have offices but now we we we don't
1:09:26
and but we always could um be remote I've been there for three and a half
1:09:31
years but meaning I've been able to go off as a digital Nomad for a couple of
1:09:37
months and I have that option and I think that is just satisfies me
1:09:42
enough I feel tired and advanc of saying I'm going to move my whole life and have
1:09:47
to restart from stretch making friends to admin um packing up everything
1:09:52
saddling and finding a home Etc the option of just going to check out a
1:09:58
country for two three months works perfectly for me right sounds familiar I'm also remote
1:10:05
working so but I think having a base it's interesting at least like if you can do
1:10:11
this okay I'm going for some time but still going home no at the end of it
1:10:17
it's always Rec comforting yeah maybe one last question uh before we close the episode it's if
1:10:25
do you have any tip or what would you say to someone who needs or wants to repatriate what what is the biggest tip
1:10:32
that you will give right now to someone who needs to repatriate treat it as an
1:10:38
expatriation go in the same way same mindset you're moving again you're changing homes so don't expect
1:10:46
everything to be the same just go in as if it was a completely new country with you know brand new brand new set of eyes
1:10:54
of your discover in everything because when it'll make it exciting of rediscovering the city um rediscovering
1:11:01
the home and it will put you in the mind set of I have to make new friends I have
1:11:09
to find you know new habits maybe you're going to change neighborhood and that'll be a little bit like you've changed area
1:11:16
and you know there's probably new cultural things also to do new activities um so find
1:11:23
that nice very good tip I think I will apply I will apply it if I ever go back
1:11:30
home yeah if I ever go back home it's also a good question um well thanks a
1:11:38
lot I think it was a very very interesting uh episode but before that
1:11:44
maybe like reminding that you also have a podcast that it's called meet the exper uh is there anywhere else that you
1:11:51
that people can find you I think you have Instagram and you have Social account so yeah I'm on Instagram there
1:11:57
is a Blog that's not very active but there is a Blog if uh needed but if you
1:12:03
want to reach out to me Instagram or email okay so it's meet the X but also
1:12:08
in Instagram no it's the same uh branding yes exactly of course you will always find the handles in the
1:12:15
description the the links and everything so as always um but yeah besides that
1:12:21
thanks a lot uh it has been very nice to year and to do the other part
1:12:28
also very very nice to know your your stories and experiences and and also
1:12:33
like if anyone is going to repatriate soon I'm I'm pretty sure that they will take advantage and it will be useful for
1:12:39
them so thanks lovely talking um yeah lovely
1:12:45
lovely to talk with you and share the experience for sure you've been listening to expat
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